Monday, February 8, 2016

My Conversation with Carlos

I had an extended email conversation with someone named Carlos who sent a few emails, citing verses that supposedly prove his belief in the most popular heretical mamzer of history, Yeshu.

I took it up to argue with him, and that is what I certainly did. This is a long discussion, but it's golden.

In it, I explain many verses used by the ignorant to claim their false beliefs, and I show no shame in telling this unfortunate misled person the truth. It should be very interesting to most readers.

In the first emails, Carlos cites verses. I'm not posting this, since I'll re-cite each verse he mentioned, explaining their true meanings. I'll start with my first response:

My response:


Shalom Carlos, [here I explain my past to him and explain that I started out with no bias against my previous beliefs, but that studying Torah led me to the truth].

First of all, we must get one thing clear. The Torah states that God is not a man, nor a human being (ben adam), in BaMidbar/Numbers 23:19. This should be obvious, given there is no statement in the Torah, whatsoever, that indicates HaShem is a man. As soon as someone believes God is a human being, he loses his eternal life, his place in the world to come, and is a heretic - simply put. God is above and beyond conception, He is infinite and above time, space, and matter. At the same time, "the whole earth is filled with His glory", yet we cannot see or touch Him, we can only feel His presence and forge a relationship with him through learning Torah and praying to Him sincerely.

Also, God is not two, nor three. If he were a man, it would mean he is two. How did Yeshu pray to God if he were God? We recite the Shema` twice daily which is a proclamation of the oneness of HaShem, and this goes hand-in-hand with the previous paragraph that HaShem above and beyond the mind's perception. The verses in Tanakh regarding HaShem having an eye, that He sees, having a hand, sitting in judgment, etc, is all absolutely not literal. It is a necessary way of describing to the human mind how HaShem acts towards His creation. This is basic.

Secondly, nowhere in the Tanakh does it says the Messiah will be God. To the contrary, the Messiah is to be a son of David. To be a son of David means he is descended through David via his father. It means he must have a human father.

All of our souls are like a breath from HaShem's mouth into the body. That's why we must take care not to damage this soul, but rather to return it to it's source in purity. In this way, you could say that every Jew is a son of God. And indeed it is so. However, this doesn't mean we are literally the children of God, as if He impregnated a human woman and we are the result. You only find such a ridiculous, stupid, silly, and evil concept among standard paganism and idolatry - not within the Torah in any way, shape, or form.

I feel it is this misunderstanding that you hold which leads you to other misconceptions.

Psalm 22 does not, in any way, state that the Messiah would be tortured to death. See how you take a beautiful prayer of King David and twist it into something it is not. You should be ashamed to read such idiocy into these holy verses. 

Your assumption about Daniel 9 is only what you read into it. And how can I trust someone who doesn't even believe in the oneness of HaShem and the fact that He is NOT a man? How could I trust such a person's interpretation of anything else in the Tanakh, when he doesn't even recognize these basic facts about the nature of HaShem?

Isaiah 52-53, "My servant" refers to Israel. It says so in Isaiah 41:8. You should read these verses in context.


Moses was willing to give himself up to save all of Israel at a time when our destruction was being considered by HaShem for our sin of idolatry with the golden calf. Instead, you totally pervert this concept by insisting that you must worship an idol who supposedly sacrificed himself to himself (as you say, see how silly that is?). In other words, believing in Yeshu and considering him as a deity is the exact thing that will DESTROY Israel, NOT save us.

You should read the Aramaic Targum (Yonatan) to Zechariah 12:10."And they shall supplicate Me because of their wanderings. And they shall look to Me to complain about those of them whom the nations thrust through and slew during their exile." In other words, they will look to HaShem about being killed, persecuted, and exiled by the nations, especially by the Romans and Christians who used Yeshu to disqualify the Jewish people and remove their importance, they identity, their supreme role in the world, and reduce them to dust. Again, Yeshu is the exact opposite of what we would hope for as the Messiah - plainly and clearly.

On the last part about "mourning over an only son", the Sages comment that one of the Messiahs will be slain and the people of Israel will mourn over him as if he were their only son. Not "God's only son", see the difference?
Why wasn't this Yeshu? Because he didn't fulfill the role of the Messiah, and we don't consider him as valuable to us as an only son - instead, we consider him as an enemy, evil, wicked, exactly as he was.

Zechariah 13:7 doesn't say at all what you claim it to say. The man in Zechariah 13:6 who has wounds "between his hands", meaning on his back (see Rashi) is a FALSE PROPHET, who was disciplined for being such. I don't know where you get these silly interpretations of these verses you quote - but it is sure getting old fast.

Zechariah 11:4-6,10-11 do not say what you claim - at all. You simply read things into the text. You're just taking your mistaken beliefs and inserting them wherever you want.

As for Psalm 2:1, the nations have accepted your messiah, but they reject the Messiah of Israel who will come to defy the wicked nations of the earth and crush them. This is Gog U-Magog, see Ezekiel 38-39. Yeshu wouldn't fight for Israel, he would turn the other cheek. He brought nothing but evil for the Jewish people, much less victory against our enemies.

Isaiah 49:3 says Israel is God's servant. 49:4 expresses ISAIAH'S (not the Messiah's) frustration over Israel's sins. So you suggest we should sin by believing in a false messiah and claim him to be a god? You see the irony here?

Isaiah 8:14, read the context. Isaiah is prophesying to the kingdom of Judah that the alliance between the kingdoms of Ephraim and Aram wouldn't be successful against them. The two sons, `Immanuel and Maher-shallal-hash-baz are two literal sons that were born to Isaiah's wife (the `alma, young woman). Isaiah says in 8:3 that he became intimate with the prophetess (his wife, the `alma/young woman) and she gave birth to the second child, just like in chapter 7 where the first child, `Immanuel, was born to Isaiah also as a sign to Judah that God is with them (as `Immanuel means "God is with us", i.e. on our side). In Isaiah 8:18, Isaiah says "the children whom HaShem gave to me as signs". `Immanuel was Isaiah's own child, not Yeshu - the text itself says that. You can't argue with that.

Isaiah 6 is talking about the repentance of Israel back to the Torah. It mentions nothing about Yeshu, obviously.

Psalm 69 is about David. See the first verse.

Psalm 118 mentions nothing about Yeshu, again.

Now that I have cleared up all the lies about what you claim these verses state. Answer me these:
1. How could Yeshu be paternal descendant of David if he didn't have a biological father?

2. Do you realize, reading through the books of Samuel, Kings, and Isaiah, that the whole hope of Israel, and the coming of the Messiah, is for a restored Davidic Kingdom?
3. If you realize the above, then how do you reconcile the fact that Yeshu had nothing to do with the restoration of the Davidic Kingdom, never mentioned it, and that all of his followers only look for a fake, fairy tale, "kingdom of heaven" which they say exists in their hearts, and that the Davidic Kingdom is disregarded entirely?

4. How do you reconcile the fact that the name of Yeshu has been used to consider the Jews irrelevant and the most hated and despised people on earth? That's the work of the Messiah?

5. How do you reconcile the fact that the people of Israel returned to the land of Israel after around 2,000 years of exile - WITHOUT Yeshu involved at all?

6. How do you reconcile the fact that HaShem did open miracles for the people of Israel, without Yeshu involved in any way?

7. How do you reconcile the fact that your beliefs force you to say all Jews who don't believe in Yeshu are lost, while at the same time the Torah always states that those Jews who follow HaShem's Torah and believe He is one are the righteous, the save, and are therefore the ones inheriting eternal life with eternal bliss?

8. How do you reconcile that the Torah says God is not a man, as I cited above, yet you turn around to believe He supposedly incarnated as a man and sacrificed himself to himself, for a problem he himself caused (the doctrine of original sin)? That is what you believe, it makes no sense, and it is actually hilarious to think someone could believe something like this.

You see, what you believe is so illogical, it is hard for someone on the outside of it all to believe that someone could actually believe this. You need to break through the emotional programming and make a straight line to the unadulterated truth. It is the only thing attaching you to these extremely bizarre beliefs that are clearly foreign to the Torah. It may take a while to deprogram, but if you would really like to serve HaShem alone in the right way and attain true eternal life with Him (by being incorporated into Him through learning His Torah, living it, breathing it, and annulling yourself to Him), it is a necessary step to take. I can promise you: when you come out on the other side, you will feel relieved, happy, content, and rejuvenated, and you will finally be able to tell the difference between the real thing and the fake.

-Aharon


Carlos' reply:

Hi aaron! thanks for sharing a little bit of your story with us, why do I say with us? because we are created in his likeness just like he said in genesis 1:26 let us create a man in our likeness, Hashem undoubtably is one but at the same time in three, just like you and me: we are Spirit (life energy), Soul (feelings) and body (temple) the most ingenious invention earth is the computer which is inspired in man’s three in one also: electricity (power), hardware (body) software (programs) all in one, so the messiah is the number 2 in the original three in one, the mystery of the number seven: seven days in the week because of creation, i’m also a musician so i can tell you the mayor scale which is the main and most important has 7 notes, in the whole scale note number 3 is perfect has no sharp, and note number seven is also perfect has no sharp, so the other 5 notes has sharps that makes 10 + 2 (3 and 7 that are perfect) so the whole spectrum is 12, just like the months and digits in the clock (Time) just like the tribes of yisrael and the disciples of my master Adonai, the sun light is white (look at the moon at night when full contact with sun light) when he sunlight touches water and a prism or crystal u get 7 colours no more and no less, nature and numbers never fail, I would like to teach you more about the nature of the universe, these besides love which is the most important subject are the teachings of Yeshua, Melech malchei hamelachim, and a little bit of my background: I grew up in south america, I’m still learning hebrew, I speak 5 more languages, including japanese which is my current country, I was a complete ignorant, but I submitted to Elohim and he taught me, had an encounter with them, my wish was to be like enoch the teacher the 7 after Adam whose soul was completely wrapped with Ruach, Everybody has access to that nowadays, but only through Yeshua, no messianic church me taught me things, out of the blue i found a messianic synagogue by myself after knowing all these things.


Blessings and shalom


My reply:

Hi Carlos, excuse my delayed reply. You really must read what the oral Torah has to say about these verses. Anybody can read anything in the Tanakh and make assumptions. Humans being made into "Our Image" doesn't mean HaShem has a body. If that's what you get out of it, you've severely degraded and bastardized the Torah.

As for the white light becoming 7 colors via a prism or crystal - you're right. However, if you think the Emanations of HaShem (the Sefirot) are HaShem Himself, you're wrong. The Sefirot are ways we perceive HaShem's output into creation, they are not separate gods, God forbid, or separate entities. There is no trinity, there is no 7 or 10 gods represented by the Sefirot. HaShem is One and UNCHANGING, as the Tanakh states. Only, when we perceive what He does, we perceive supposed differences whereas actually HaShem never changed and is infinite and unable to be measured or contained in any sort of description or category.

Through Yeshu, you have access to a counterfeit source of spiritual energy that is from the forces of evil that seek to feed off of aspects of true Holiness and Godliness. They seem real and strong, but they are only strong for a time before running out, like a storm wind. The real thing is much stronger, real, true, and holy, not what the spirituality from the belief in Yeshu is at all. The real thing is only accessible through refining yourself through the Torah and conversation with HaShem ALONE. If someone believes false things about HaShem, then they're not even on the track of true holiness and service of HaShem, and the spirituality they attain is evil disguised as good. Just as a Buddhist might attain spiritual 'heights' in his meditation, he is drawing from the forces of evil. A believer in Yeshu does the same thing.

Spiritual feelings and emotional feelings are not a testament to the truth because many religions have spirituality that leaves people with tangible feelings. Miracles, also, are no testament to a true prophet or a true Messiah. The plain written text of the Torah warns us that if we listen to a 'prophet' who performs miracles but says one word contrary to HaShem's Torah, he is a false prophet and not to be followed, and in fact he is to even be killed.

Unfortunately, you have been duped by a false prophet and a false messiah who offers nothing but nice warm feelings and an illusion of light and spirituality. Just like the evil inclination gives. When you get to the end, you'll see it is nothing but darkness, death, and impurity, God forbid.

I see you did not reply to any of my refutations of your claims about the verses you cited, nor did you answer my questions. I know why this is, because whenever I have argued specific points with my Messianic friends and family, they usually have nothing to respond in the end. I am still waiting for my brother to respond to a specific point I made to him, and after several years and several reminders, he hasn't said a word. It is because you all do not really know what the Torah states, you don't have your theology in a straight line because you couldn't possible, since your theology is absurd according to the Torah.

It is simple: serve HaShem alone, doing the Torah as His tzadikim have relayed it to us, without question and without doubt. Without philosophy, without trying to define God. The truth is only one and not two or more. Everyone, Jews and gentiles, must serve HaShem only according to what HaShem has commanded to them, depending on whether they're Jewish or a gentile. I hope you find the right path and get out of this big illusion and delusion of the false man-god idol known as Yeshu.


Carlos' reply:

God has No Body, He Is One, One white light, there’s no such thing as seven Gods, But he’s Three energies in One like a genetic code, translated to blood, in case of human beings, he’s the source of all Good, talent and love, the Dark energy, (Lucifer) lost his glorious state, and he wants to be like man, and mess up with the human genome, (transhumanism) that’s why his number is number of man three times: 666 (according to the prophecy of john the apostle) every thing that goes against nature Is not from Hashem! I’m sorry bro, but The shephirot is kabbalistic!


My reply:

The Sefirot are from Kabbalah and you don't understand them, and now what you wrote is a bunch of jibberish trying to say God is one and not a man, yet he somehow still is. I have been in your shoes before. I got out, you can too.

Way to not respond, again, neither to my refutations of your claims about the verses you cited, nor answer my questions at the end of the first email. As I said in the last email and I'll remind you again: you have no response. Also, whatever I write doesnt matter to you because you disrgard what I write and dont pay attention. If you paid attention to my words, you'll see I already answered your false claims in this latest email. Youre thinking in philosophy and philosophy is error. God is one, not a human, which the Torah plainly states. Theres nothing else to add, it's game over already.


Carlos' reply:

I feel a lot of pride in you, and let me tell you according to the book of Ezekiel that was the first sin committed in the universe, the big light (Hashem) created lucifer (small light) but he was filled w pride (darkness) and he fell astray from the light and the void was created in a realm, every man is a temple, a house with no water and no light is void and has no purpose (just an example), the mayim Chaim chinam is Ruach and the light is Hashem but he is not a man, that's why through perfect genetics he manifested to mankind through Yeshua, everything was created through him and by him, in the beginning there was the word and the word was with Elohim and the Word was Elohim, and the word was made flesh, so in other words we see creation in Genesis from a word, Elohim is an unchanged energy and the source of love, but he had to speak to create through power of spirit to create so: light= Hashem, Word of light= Yeshua, living water and power= Ruach they're all one in three: let's create man in our own image= three in one!!!


My reply:

Carlos, you sit here and disregard everything I write. You arrogantly proclaim your man-god idol and have ZERO response on all my refutations of your points plus ZERO reply to my questions in the first email. Every time I argue with a messianic xtian and it gets to the point that they cannot refute a single point of mine, they resort to personal attack, just like you.

Anyone reading this conversation can see you are an ignoramus arguing with someone who knows relatively very little about Torah, but still tons more than you who cannot even accept the simple oneness and incorporeality of HaShem. As I said before, and I'm sorry it hurts your feelings, but you're not even in the race yet, you haven't even begun, and you know nothing about Torah since you cannot even grasp the basics because of your mindless submission to your idol. You were not even open to the truth since phase one, there is no helping you until you realize how idiotic your beliefs are in light of Torah, and how childish your argument methods are in trying to get out of answering my questions (which is fair since I answered all your original points) by calling me names. Didn't your man-god say to not judge the sliver in another's eye when you have a whole beam of wood in yours? Also, he said to turn the other cheek, so if I call you what you are, don't call me a name back, turn that other cheek and let me slap it too. You're not acting very christ-like with your angry, worked up attitude. Didn't Yeshu say to just love your fellow man? I don't find any love from you, you are full of hate. Why not follow the man you claim is a god so vehemently? You're not acting like a very good believer...


Carlos' reply:

Easy Aaron I appreciate you writing me back but we haven't met in person yet for you to say I'm full of hate, personally I think everyone is equal we are all children of Hashem, he teaches us, we look everyday for innocence, and look more for talent, he's the one to give us that and we all are Jewish in essence because we all come from Adam but then the bene Elohim came and messed up our Dna, that's why the messiah had to recover human race back with blood!


My reply:

So you can call me arrogant but I cannot call you full of hate? I was being a bit sarcastic, by the way. I was mimicking your argument tactic. I don't care what you call me, I am just pointing out that you're running away from the argument by turning to personal attack and choosing not to answer my points.

Please answer all points I made in the original email, since I took the time and answered all your claims. I'll copy and paste them here.

>>> 1. How could Yeshu be paternal descendant of David if he didn't have a biological father?
>>>
>>> 2. Do you realize, reading through the books of Samuel, Kings, and Isaiah, that the whole hope of Israel, and the coming of the Messiah, is for a restored Davidic Kingdom?
>>>
>>> 3. If you realize the above, then how do you reconcile the fact that Yeshu had nothing to do with the restoration of the Davidic Kingdom, never mentioned it, and that all of his followers only look for a fake, fairy tale, "kingdom of heaven" which they say exists in their hearts, and that the Davidic Kingdom is disregarded entirely?
>>>
>>> 4. How do you reconcile the fact that the name of Yeshu has been used to consider the Jews irrelevant and the most hated and despised people on earth? That's the work of the Messiah?
>>>
>>> 5. How do you reconcile the fact that the people of Israel returned to the land of Israel after around 2,000 years of exile - WITHOUT Yeshu involved at all?
>>>
>>> 6. How do you reconcile the fact that HaShem did open miracles for the people of Israel upon our return to Israel, without Yeshu involved in any way?
>>>
>>> 7. How do you reconcile the fact that your beliefs force you to say all Jews who don't believe in Yeshu are lost, while at the same time the Torah always states that those Jews who follow HaShem's Torah and believe He is one are the righteous, the save, and are therefore the ones inheriting eternal life with eternal bliss?
>>>
>>> 8. How do you reconcile that the Torah says God is not a man, as I cited above, yet you turn around to believe He supposedly incarnated as a man and sacrificed himself to himself, for a problem he himself caused (the doctrine of original sin)? That is what you believe, it makes no sense, and it is actually hilarious to think someone could believe something like this. (This point you have addressed, albeit in a completely unsatisfying and illogical way)


Carlos does not reply for a while, after replying promptly thus far. I email him again:

Nothing to respond to, Carlos? Too hard?


Carlos' finally decides to reply:Hi Aron how r u doing?, sorry I haven’t been able to answer your email, I’ve been kinda easy here in asia, in the following list i’m going to address each answer according to the number of your question:

1_Joseph and Miriam were both cousins and descendants of the tribe of Judah (the Lion) and from direct lineage of David

2_It’s an eternal restored davidic kingdom on earth (haaretz) so not only in israel but also for all the goyim

3_Kingdom of heaven is the third heaven, first is the atmosphere of haaretz, second is the universe, and the third is where the throne of hashem is (multiverse) 

4_Well jews has been despised by the babylonians, Egypt, Rome, Soviet union, Nazis, Persia, all of these aforementioned kingdoms don’t exist no more except the reminiscence of rome (Vatican the kingdom of lucifer) and it’s about to fall

5_Well some israelites have always been living around haaretz and in haaretz the whole time, close areas include: Jordan, Palestine and Lebanon

6_Rachem miracles are always present, but Yeshua’s miracles reinforced the new covenant from the tribe of Judah which is love others like yourself, that means the levitical law (moshe’s) is not necessary the ONLY one after the hamaschiah came for the first time

7_Never said nobody is lost, only Elohim knows, and only Hashem knows what eras in the persons life elohim reveals individually so that’s a very delicate question that nobody knows the answer except for the Yeshua part.

8_Well according to bereshit The whole creation was made through the word of G-d, He said: (that’s a word) Let there be light, so Yeshua (Messiah) is the Word of YHVH made flesh genetically perfect from Adam, and the original sin is listed in bereshit as the Fall from Gan Eden.

Cheers and shalom!


My reply:

Thanks for responding.

1. Joseph wasn't his biological father, so he couldn't have been a Davidic king. The maternal ancestry doesn't count for tribal status. You claim he didn't have a human father, but we know his father was a Roman soldier and that Yeshu was a mamzer.

2. The Davidic Kingdom is more like an empire that conquered nations in order to claim the full span of the Land of Israel, which is massive. The Prophets speak of there being gentiles in the Days of the Messiah, obviously not everyone will be Jewish. Also, in the time of the Messiah, like it was fornthe time of David and Solomon, converts are not accepted.

3. The Kingdom of Heaven is the restored Davidic Kingdom, on this earth. The higher spiritual universes parallel the physical. Everything here has something in those spiritual universes that causes it to exist and as it goes higher and higher it comes to an utterance of HaShem, which is figurative because HaShem is infinite and above time, space, and matter which are all products of creation. So speech does not apply to him like we think of it. We just cannot perceive HaShem, infinity, or something having no time, space, mass, etc.

4. I agree. All those nations that hated Jews don't exist and that the Roman empire turned into western society and Christianity. The Protestants broke away somewhat from the Catholics, but they still do the same idolatry. Meaning all of the believers in Yeshu will fall, not just the Vatican, because they're all idolaters and their idol Yeshu has been used to persecute Jews more than anything else over the paste two millenia.

5. Yes, but the vast majority were exiled and many returned through miracles that HaShem did for us.

6. The Levitical law, the whole Torah is based upon loving yout fellow Jew as yourself, as the Torah was given to Israel only. It is all valid and the Prophets state it will be for all time. The Torah states that if a supposed prophet or dreamer does miracles but says the Torah is no longer valid - you reject him and sentence him to death. It says that in the plain text of the Torah.

7. Only Elohim knows, but he gave us laws, morals to live by that will guide our actions so that we din't do something that will cut our soul off from everlasting life. If you live by an ambiguous standard of love, you will err horribly.

8. I already explained creation biriefly in point 3. If Yeshu were "the Word", then how could he be God? If everything was created by Elohim's word, which it was, then why wouldn't everything be God? That's a logical checkmate.


Carlos' reply:

Shalom Again Aaron! receive a Sephardic salutation with a mix from the tribe of levi, naphtali and issachar from here!!

1-Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel. Joseph and mary were cousins so there is the legal right right there

2- Romans are Devilish we agree on that, then again the davidic kingdom goes in genetic info (blood)

3-Agree on that too Hashem lives in an eternal present, Yeshua is his word made flesh, essentially he is not elohim, but he is seated on his right hand, meaning he has the same power, because he is his word and Ruach haqodesh is the power 3 in 1.

4-Correction they were already idolatrous when constantine knew about ha maschiach

5-ok

6-Gotta love the Goyim bro, if you hate there is darkness inside, were one with the goyim through his name now, Love others like yourself, bc the life in essence contained in others is the same in you… if you love Hashem cannot hate others bc in a way Hashem is in them…

7-Only Him knows But it’s not through thorough laws anymore

8-Think of the WORD like a Verb theoretically and linguistically you cannot have any action in no text without a Verb , it denotes action past present or future, so He is His verb Made flesh for the planet.



My reply: 

First of all, Carlos, you're not from this tribe or that. You can't simply come up with "oh yeah, I'm from this tribe". All of that is a fantasy and not true, you cannot prove it. It's also a form of replacement theology to say you're the real Jew since you think the actual Jews are doing it wrong. You're the mistaken one, we're the only ones to keep the Torah for thousands of years, no one else. And the 613 commandments of the Torah were delivered only to us.

1. The word is not virgin. `Alma does not mean virgin. Not only that, the child along with the other one in Isaiah 8 were both born to ISAIAH'S WIFE, the `Alma. AND, Isaiah says that, himself in Isaiah 8. Go read it for yourself. I already addressed this point and now I see you didn't read it. The two children `Immanu'el and Maher-shallal-hash-baz were children born to Isaiah, as explained in Isaiah 7 and 8, as signs for the kingdom of Judah that the alliance of Ephraim and Aram wouldn't be victorious, but that God would save them from their enemies. If you can't even read that in context, in the plain written text, then that's pretty bad.


2. Actually, I was mistaken before. The Romans, Perisans, and Nazis still exist. Their empires were destroyed on the surface, but they continued in different forms until today. They won't last, however, it's all part of God's plan to bring mass destruction to the nations for ever bothering His people.

Also, if your father isn't a direct paternal descendant of Aaron, you cannot be a Kohen. If your father is not a direct paternal ancestor of David, you cannot be a Davidic king. These are simple facts. Tribal status derives from the father's lineage. The Torah attests to this, it isn't hard to see. It's plain and simple, and very apparent in the Torah.

3. So you think Yeshu is not God. That's good. You think he's seated on his right hand, but the only problem with that is that he's not. Onkelos (who wrote one of the Aramaic translations to the Torah), before converting to Judaism, summoned a few dead and interviewed him. One of them was Yeshu. Yeshu is boiling in excrement for denying the Sages that God commanded us to listen to in Deuteronomy 17, and for performing magic for the sake of establishing himself as a false Messiah. That's pretty harsh, but it's the truth.

4. Yes, Catholics were. But a person who believes men can be deities is an idolater. So this applies to most Christians today, almost entirely.

5. So it proves, as if there needs to be proof, that "God is with us", as per Isaiah 7. He is still with us and never left. If we weren't doing the Torah, He wouldn't be with us.

6. One should also love righteous goyim who do not worship idolatry and do the parts of the Torah that are applicable to them. But you do not love idolatrous goyim. However, the Torah's command only requires Jews to love their fellow Jews and perhaps the Ger Toshav (the gentile who accepts the laws of Noah and rejects idolatry), it does not require one to love every person on earth, because if you did, that would be hate. To hate the right people is love of the world and love of good. To love the wrong people is to hate the world and hate good.

7. If it's not through laws, why did Yeshu supposedly say "I did not come to abolish the Torah or the Prophets, but to sustain/fulfill them" (Matthew 5:17)? When did Jesus say in the Christian Bible he was coming to change the Torah?

8. I'm familiar with what the Word of HaShem is. All things came to be through Him 'speaking' it into existence, like I already explained. That means everything is the manifestation of the Word of HaShem. This is why the Torah is powerful and gives the Jew complete dominion over all of creation and even the angels, when he keeps it, because the Torah is the blueprint of all creation. Only we understand these things, as Paul said "the Jews have been entrusted with the very words of God" (Romans 3:2). Other versions of Romans 3:2 read "the Jews were entrusted with the whole revelation of God", and "the Jews have been entrusted with the oracles of God".


Carlos' reply:

[I guess he gave up on all the other points?]

7- He’s the fulfillment, the new covenant form the tribe of judah, trough faith and love, in essence, the word was not seen and then it was, the word was with G-d and the Word Is G-d, one law, sacrifice yourself for your neighbour (not talking about death) we’re bought again with blood, he’s the Lion and the lamb, the word is almah=virgin, torah is not changed it is fulfilled in Yeshua, Immanuel= God physically with us!


My reply:

Isaiah 7:5-6 - Ephraim and Aram conspire to invade Judah.
Isaiah 7:7 - HaShem says it won't happen.
Isaiah 7:10-11 - Isaiah tells the king of Judah, Ahaz, to ask HaShem for a sign that Ephraim and Aram won't succeed against Judah.
Isaiah 7:12 - Ahaz won't ask a sign from God because he doesn't want to test Him.
Isaiah 7:14 - Isaiah tells Ahaz that God will perform a sign, anyway.
Isaiah 7:15 - The sign for Judah in those days was to be a son to be born to the `alma (young woman, NOT virgin), and Isaiah will call this son of his `Immanu'el, meaning God is with us, that is, God is on Judah's side.
Isaiah 7:16-25 - BEFORE THE CHILD `IMMANU'EL GROWS VERY OLD, GOD WILL DESTROY THE KINGDOMS OF EPHRAIM AND ARAM VIA ASSYRIAN INVASION, THUS SAVING JUDAH FROM INVASION. THAT COULDN'T POSSIBLY BE JESUS, IF YOU HAVE A BRAIN TO THINK WITH.

Isaiah 8:3 - Isaiah impregnates his wife, the `alma/young woman of chapter 7, this second child is to be named Maher-shallal-hash-baz (literally: 'fast plunder, quick spoil', since God would save Judah from Ephraim via a 'fast plunder' and Aram via a 'quick spoil')
Isaiah 8:4 - Like with `Immanu'el in chapter 7, it also says this child won't get very old before God saves Judah from invasion. Rashi actually says they're both the same child, simply with two names.
Isaiah 8:18 - Isaiah says: "Behold, I and the children (`Immanu'el and Maher-shallal-hash-baz) whom the Lord gave me for signs and for tokens in Israel, from the Lord of Hosts, Who dwells on Mount Zion."

There, Isaiah says himself that `Immanu'el was his literal flesh-and-blood son, born to his wife who is the obvious "`alma" of chapter 7, as it says plainly and clearly in the text.

Do you see how you have been lied to, Carlos? Can't you read this for yourself and see? Can't you take off the blinders and see the truth? Anyone who reads the plain text of Isaiah 7 & 8 cannot possibly be mistaken about this, it's as clear as day.


Carlos' reply:

Aaron we live in the year 5776, If you know how to interpret prophecy through the torah, then I ask you, whats the prophecy for today on behalf of the king of the universe?


My reply:

First of all, will you admit you were wrong about Isaiah 7, now that I showed you verse by verse what it actually says there?

The prophecies and events in Isaiah 7 & 8 were for that time, obviously. The Rabbis canonized it as Scripture because it is appropriate for all generations to realize that when Israel does HaShem's will, the Torah, then God will protect them. This applies obviously for today, as well. And today, we have Russia, Iran, and other enemies to our north, looking to destroy us, which is a very similar circumstance to what was going on in Isaiah's day. We can learn from reading Isaiah that HaShem will protect us and save all of those who trust in Him alone and do His will.


Carlos' reply:

Well I believe also the Torah is eternal, He will protect not also Us but tho the rest of the Goyim that love him and are circumcised in the heart also… 


My reply:

Circumcision of the heart, the Tanakh describes, is breaking the ego and submitting to HaShem and His Torah. And I already explained the difference between good gentiles and bad gentiles and what a Jew's sentiment should be toward all of them. You seem to answer me like I didn't just explain that to you. I don't know where your disconnect is.


Carlos' reply:

I wanna Share a Song to you 

[Sends me a link to some song on YouTube. I guess thinking is getting too strenuous for him.]


My reply:

Carlos, you never admitted to being obviously wrong about Isaiah 7. I thoroughly showed you what was in chapters 7 & 8, don't play ignorant. Be honest with yourself.


Carlos' reply:

[Again sends me another link to a song on YouTube and says nothing.]


My reply:

Carlos, you are the most ignorant person I have come in contact with. You live a lie and a fantasy that you cannot even back up. I have proven you wrong TONS of times since we began arguing and you continue on like you made sense. Pathetic.


Carlos' reply:

Aaron This is my prayer for u… Rachem…

[Again he posts another YouTube song. See a trend here?]


My reply:

You're blinded to the truth. Spiritually blinded. You cannot look at the truth and see it, or ever admit wring. You say you are righteous, but you are wicked for denying the plain truth. God will repay you for denying His truth.


Carlos' reply:

違います, I don’t know about you, but everything you wish to me badly will come back to you, and as I pray for you, abundance and prosper will follow me until the end of my earthly days, YHVH lives eternally


My reply:

You have no spiritual protection, that's why Christians and Messianics deal with demonic activity that bothers them, when they get involved in spirituality. You're worshiping an evil persona of deceit and lies. Thus, those of us who have true spiritual protection, tefillin, mezuzot, and Shema`, are protected. I don't suffer from problems like you will, from this interaction of ours. May you suffer from a lot until you give up and see the truth.


Carlos' reply:

those are just garments, I was healed from leukemia, been in many countries, learned many languages, play 4 instruments, Sing, self taught nobody taught me (can you do all of these,?,,,, Doubt it) I don’t have spiritual protection, my spirit is Sealed by the ruach, I’m a citizen of the Kingdom of Heaven and that’s irreversible…


My reply:

Tefillin, mezuzot, and reciting Shema` twice daily are spiritual guards that you don't have. ;)

Yes, actually I can do all of those things, but it has nothing to do with our discussion. You are so blinded, as a person with a working brain, you should be able to acknowledge obvious facts. I don't believe you're stupid and therefore can't acknowledge these facts. I believe you're very capable and not dumb at all, you're just ignorant because you're emotionally and spiritually attached to Jesus, to the point it blinds you from the truth.


End of the discussion - for now!

How do you think it went? Who won? Care to comment?

23 comments:

  1. This comment is for you to read, not to post.
    Gentiles cannot communicate straight with Hashem the same way as we Jews. Everyone of the nations have a angel, that play the role of a messenger. The reason for that is, that every Jewish neshama have a spark of Hashem in itself. This spark we regain after the sin of Adam by the merritt of our forefathers, Avraham, Itschak and Jaacov. Gentiles are on the level of Noah and there is no excuse to teach them Torah.
    It is clear from above that this individual is pretty confused by all the avoda zara.
    Let him be.

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  2. Yes, I'm aware of the nations having different overlords.

    Yes, I'm aware of the specialness of the Jewish soul - do you know who I am and who I used to be? Do you know anything about me? You're talking to me like I'm clueless.

    Gentiles are not on the level of Noah, you're wrong. They're on the level of Ham until they become Bnei Noah, then they're in a different category.

    Noah embodied Hevel, as did Shem. The Avot embodied Hevel, as did Moshe Rabenu.

    "Let him be"? Don't respond to his claims? Don't post the responses for people to learn from and relay to others who are in discussions with missionaries? You don't think I know his exact mindset, you don't think I know he's blinded from the truth because of the dibuk that possesses him via his `avoda zara? You're mistaken.

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    1. Also, the Rambam states that you absolutely can argue with Christians about Tanakh, since they believe in it's authenticity.

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  3. Further proof:
    "Through a fall of holy faith, false beliefs are made and strengthened. Also to the opposite: when the holy faith is elevated and fixed, false beliefs are weakened and they fall; then, the idolatrous nations come back and return from their false faiths to our holy faith and converts are made. Sometimes potential converts are made, meaning that even though they don't come to actually convert, they recognize HaShem from the place they are at and they know and believe that there is a Single, Ancient One. Other times, actual converts are made who come and convert..." (Likutei Etzot, Faith and Truth #43)

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  4. Please see my answer to your post:
    http://combatingmessianics.blogspot.co.il/2016/02/the-talmud-isnt-bible.html?m=1

    Same way a just pure Kohen that lives by strict rules, can perform tasks in the Beit ha Mikdash, a Jew can bring the light by being himself a good example.
    When gentiles are sincere enough, by respectful approach, you can guide them.
    And yes, there are some, that choose the path of sincere conversion.
    No need to fight with me being a Jew, for I am Jewish.
    May the light of the only truth help you and strengthen you in Avodat Hashem.

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    1. The problem is, your opinion of what's a "good example" isn't the Torah's. You have this assimilation into some mindset that isn't Jewish.

      David HaMelekh slaughtering an extra 100 Philistines in battle and paying their foreskins to Sha'ul as dowry for Mikhal wouldn't be "nice enough" for you, but the Torah praises him for it.

      Eliyahu mocking the prophets of Ba`al by saying their god must be sitting on the toilet since he didn't respond to their prayers wouldn't be a "good example" to you - yet if you really think you could say Eliyahu was wrong, be my guest.

      The fact is, you are being a good example to idolatrous gentiles or Jews by not only rejecting their idolatry, but combating it with answers from the Torah. As the Sages said: "know how to answer a heretic". You don't just sit around and lollygag, act like an ignoramus with a smile on your face - that isn't being a "good example".

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    2. On a related note, because David was such a good example to the nations - by subjugating them, converts weren't accepted at the time of his reign, nor Shlomo's, because of שולחן מלכים, that the potential converts might be converting for these ulterior motives, being well off in a powerful kingdom, rather than for the right reasons.

      Thus, when David's Kingdom isn't ruling, as today, then we accept converts. The only problem is, who will want to convert when we're downtrodden? Only a gentile who recognizes Israel's greatness by removing idiocy and folly from him, unlike Carlos who not only thinks he's a Jew, but that real Jews aren't following the truth.

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  5. You give the answer!!!
    Great!
    "know how to answer a heretic"
    Is ment to be answering a Jew, that turn the truth of the not turnable Torah.
    The punishment is...i think you know.
    That punishment was ment for yeshu too, but our people where to deep in the culture of the gentiles that surrounded them in their own country.
    My favorite weapons of this world are katana and some nice shooting equipment, but I do prefer not to use them, for Hashem do it much better.
    Soon, there will be just survivors, the ones that turned to Hashem.
    No need for weapons.
    There will be no free choice.
    We are at the end.
    We are at the beginning.
    End of all.
    Beginning of the true servants of Hashem, being it Bnei Noah, or Jews.
    I waited for this happen too long!!!
    The klippot will fall in nothingness.
    Blue Diamonds, thats the answer.
    I salut you for the "good work", just do not get lost in the last moment.

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    1. So Hazal says don't respond to gentile heretics at all? Noooo....

      The peace comes through warfare, through the literal, physical war of Gog U-Magog. I feel like you're one of those people that doesn't believe in that.

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    2. BTW, I'm not getting lost in any moment by responding to a Christian. You're getting lost in the moment combating the combating of Messianics.

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  6. The world needs me very much indeed. Without me, the world cannot exist at all.

    You yourself know how much you need me. All the Tzaddikim also need me, because they too need to improve. Even the nations of the world need me. I could draw the gentiles to God and bring them closer to the faith of Israel. However: "Enough for the servant to be like his Master" ( Berachot 58b) .

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    Replies
    1. Right on. I used to have this quote up on my other blog.

      Delete
  7. Once, an important trader was traveling with a consignment of fine Hungarian wine. During the journey his assistant and the carriage driver said to him, "Here we are, traveling with all this wine. It's a very hard journey - give us a little taste of the wine." He agreed to let them have a small taste.

    A few days later, the assistant happened to be in a small town with some people who were drinking wine and praising it extravagantly. They said it was Hungarian.

    "Let me have a taste," said the assistant. They gave him some, and he said, "This isn't fine Hungarian wine at all!" They were most offended and told him to leave, but he insisted: "I know very well that this wine isn't Hungarian, because I was with a wine merchant who had genuine Hungarian wine and he gave me some to try. I know what it really tastes like." But they ignored him.

    But when the Mashiach comes, then they'll know. The time will come for the fine old wine stored up for the righteous to be served. Others will be fooled into believing that inferior Romanian, Wallachsian and Strovitsarian wines are fine old vintage wines. But none of my followers will be fooled, because they've already tasted the good wine!

    Chayey Moharan #260

    * * *

    In time to come the whole world will be Breslover Chassidim.

    "I will give you a heart of flesh, LeV BaSaR" (Ezekiel 36:26) . Read the word not as BaSaR but as BoSeR, "glad" (Midrash) . Everyone will be glad at their friends' good fortune.

    The letters of the words LeV BoSeR, a glad heart, spell out the word BReSLoV.

    Now I am glad, that you are glad, capici?

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    Replies
    1. Yes, the whole world will be Breslov because Rabenu's Torah is the Torah of the geula, of Mashiahh. The Mashiahh will write a commentary to L"M, as Rabenu said. R' Yisrael Ber stated there will be whole yeshivot dedicated to studying only sifrei Rabenu.

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  8. Knowing how to answer the heretic means we not only expose his ignorance of facts, but we also comment on the contradictory steps he takes. At times we may not even need to answer his questions. As we expose his flawed or contradictory premises and steps, the heretic is shown to be wrong. His arguments are dismantled, and there is in fact nothing to answer. So know how to answer the heretic, but as the Talmud teaches, do not engage the Jewish heretic.

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    1. You're saying to do exactly as I did and then saying I'm wrong - what is it specifically you don't like? The fact I tell the unadulterated truth? You like things candy coated or something? You're literally contradicting yourself.
      "Leave him be, but expose the heretic and defend the truth" - which is it? I think you're just arguing for the sake of argument, because I see previous arguments that I proved wrong that you didn't return to. Like "teaching Torah to goyim".

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    2. Do you realy want me to go into this on a blog that is readed by non Jews that are filthy with avoda zara and let them see how 2 followers of Rabeinu are arguing?
      If you was chabadnik, that have his own "yeshu", I will prove that you are very close to being Jewish, but by having fallen in the death cult, you have to be saved.
      You know what...put my answers here instead of me...
      Do we?
      Do we do right to teach them Torah???
      Lets see...do my work...cooperate.
      As Jews we are one, it doesn't matter if I write it down here or you, right?

      Delete
    3. You're the one coming on here and arguing for no reason. I gave my answers at the beginning, and you chose to continue this pointless debate.

      Delete
  9. I am not combating you, please.
    You did the right thing.
    Exposed a heretic.
    Now I understood that it was for the sake of your friend, right (?) , let this creature be, and focus on your friend how to strengthen him.
    Oeff, I hope this is the last comment for both of us.
    Like I said, the klippot, all these that are death= turned away from Hashem by they ugly avoda zara, will soon disappear.
    I came to this blog to tell you:
    Be prepared, make yourself holy.
    Its time...
    Sing the song and be happy, thats our protection. Take your friends and dance.
    By this dance the combat will reach his completion!!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Why do you assume I still talk to the guy and why do you care if I keep talking to him or not. If I kept talking to him, it would be better to him because something might finally get used to him. Pleaaase stooop this insanity already. I had a better time talking to Carlos... ugh.

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  10. HI A.Michael! Wow you really do have the patience of Job with Carlos. Every point you raised was met with either deflection, rejection, insult, theological acrobatics or he simply moved on to yet another point.

    You even laid out the passages in Isaiah. I would like to add something if I may… the sign to Ahaz was not the birth of the child, but rather the MATURITY of the child… by the time the child comes of age (in about a year or so) the two kings that Ahaz feared will be essentially gone--you can take it two ways.. away from Judah and away from the mortal plain. I'm not reading more into the text.. sure enough they were killed. The same scene would play out yet again with Hezekiah.

    The point xians miss is how can a child born more than 750 years later be a sign to Ahaz that G-d was not going to forsake Judah and that G-d planned to keep Ahaz's line (because of his great, great grandfather, King David)? How's that any good to Ahaz now?

    Xians always want to use this "duality of scripture" nonsense, but the passage is clear.. as you pointed out. The young woman---Isaiah's wife--- would have a son and SHE.. not "they" or some other group-- would name him Im'manu El. Just as Hosea had children whose children's names attested to demise of the Northern Kingdom, so Isaiah would have children whose names would attest to their staying in the land. Hosea and Isaiah contrast each other… Hosea's wife was a prostitute which was an allegory of the Northern Kingdom's slide into spiritual adultery (idolatry) while Isaiah's wife was a prophetess who was an allegory of Judah coming back to Torah (and they did under Hezekiah).

    Xians don't want to hear this. But they want to put their god into everything.

    I commend you for your patience, tenacity and knowledge! :)

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  11. Very poor arguments based on rabbinic lore and superstitions.

    ReplyDelete